A Selection of Comments on Bolton’s Piece
As our Judges are doing their Quixotic best to get Spain in trouble, and they have succeeded in souring our relations with America and China, may I suggest they also pick up on Russia, since they are at it. There’s Chechenia, there’s that woman with the name political Politikoskaya, who was shot, there’s the spy who was neutralized in London, Oleg Deripaska or maybe it was a different name -they all look the same to me.
☼ Feel the rope tightening eh John ?
☼ I read something about The Guardian doing some articles on sexual politics. Whose ideas was it to start with political pornography?
☼ Hehe. This will go down well. Yank-bashing incoming. This chap looks like Mark Twain. Doesn’t write like him though.
☼ So, (per para 2) you don’t think the Spanish should try to hold you to account. You think the US system should hold you to account. But then (per para 1) you don’t think that the US system should hold you to account. Good for you. By the way (and biting my lip really hard to avoid being moderated out of existence) – torturing people is not a ‘policy disagreement’ – it is morally unacceptable. And legally? Well, how will we know if nobody investigates? How will this be prevented in the future but by holding people to account?
Good for Garzon. Someone has to hold you to account.
- See what I mean? That we have to save America from itself. Not something poor, backward Spain can do. Let the Americans save themselves, or as I wrote before, let them clean their own pigsty. AGL.
☼ I can only hope that the Spanish will go after Tony Blair and Gordon Brown next
☼ «…or some unaccountable foreign or international magistrate in some unaccountable distant court?»
«…hauled before the bar of some mini-state to stand trial.»
@Mr Bolton; your narrow, procedural argument against bringing torturers to justice might have more credibility if you managed to restrain your seething disdain for everything non-American. I accept that this is your genuinely, passionately held bias, but why syndicate this article outside of the tiny population of the world which still believes in your violent approach to diplomacy?
☼ Much as I dislike John Bolton he is right on this issue. The place to do any investigation is within the US constitutional and justice system. Just because that looks unlikely doesn’t mean that some Spanish Magistrate can start his own proceedings.
☼ If Garzon wants to go after somebody, he should go after the top guys, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Gonzales, Rice. But maybe he figures the lawyers are easy meat and can be turned and used against the rest of them.
☼ What will America do if and when our citizens are illgeally detained by one of our former allies?
What’s illegal about it?
Will our then President act to protect American citizens and declare war?
I don’t see anything relevant in the UN Charter so war would be illegal under the circumstances. Not that it stops the big bullies, of course.
- Then, shall I be scared or shan’t I ? AGL
☼ Zapatero has no power over Garzon, and even if he was to try and strong arm the judiciary – and frankly that’s highly unlikely – then there would be hell to play. When the Spanish judiciary requested the extradition of Pinochet from the UK there was nothing that the then President Aznar could do about it – however, Straw was there to prove that he, yet again, is more to the right than a right-wing Spanish politician with a soft spot for certain aspects of the dictatorship of Franco.
☼ May the flames of Avici tickle you gently, along with Cheney and Rumsfeld and Bush and Rice and the rest.
☼ For those who have not seen this, Bolton on Newsnight showed us precisely what a weasel-worded, squirmy little creature he is.
I wouldn’t trust him as far as I could comfortably spit a rat, frankly.
☼ Why is this lunatic being given space in The Guardian? What’s next? Trot out some old Nazi from somewhere in South America and give him some space to explain how «Gott war mit uns»? I haven’t read one word of the article by the way, and I’m not going to.
☼ Listen, my European friends, as an American who has almost abandoned all hope for our constitutional system, not only do I want you to indict and try these war criminals, but I wish that you’d abduct them from inside the United States and try them in some of your own courts.
Well, these depraved monsters captured and tortured Spanish citizens. Spain has as much right to go after them inside the borders of the United States as Israel had to go after Eichmann inside the borders of Argentina.
Please, Spain, come and snatch them out of their beds!
- An Agent Provocateur if I ever saw one. A G L
☼ The difference between mass-murderers, torturers and war criminals like Bush, Cheney, Bolton, and Hitler and Stalin, is that the latter two actually had the guts to go into combat, instead of just sending the sons of others to die for them.
Bolton is especially smug about his own draft-dodging history.
☼ Why the blazes does the Guardian give space to the famously potty Bolton?
Probably so that people who don’t normally read American journalism can see how incredibly biased it is. (Before someone replies saying all media is biased, I am aware of that, but the American media is ridiculous)
☼ When Gonzalez failed to keep his promise, he resigned, only to attemp prosecuiting him, and half is Ministers, on a number of killings, kidnappings and other crimes in the early eighties (GAL, anyone?)
I’m not mad keen on Garzón either, but the fact remains that large numbers of Felipe’s government were behind the death squads of the GAL, as the conviction of the Interior Minister and most of his team shows. It does say something for the determination of Spanish judges that government ministers can be jailed for abuse of power. The idea of it happening in the US or UK would provoke peals of laughter.
☼ Under Spain’s inquisitorial judicial system, Garzón is essentially unaccountable
[…] firm and public statements are necessary to stop the pending Spanish inquisition
Spain is a small country ruled by feudal theocratic rules. There’s no justice in Spain, no freedom of speech, no transparent legal system. They burn witches, they eat their children and, worse of all, they’re catholic.
They’re not a free country like America. They shouldn’t decided what’s right or wrong in the world, since they’re not accountable like us. We’re a free country, we have a free market and make sure everyone else has, and thus, we have more knowledge and authority to decide what is torture and what is not, what backward regime should be smashed to pieces in a blood bath, what is good and what is evil.
Spain is a country without legitimacy in that respect. They’re not America. Who do they think they are? In fact, where are they? We don’t know very well where it is – it surely is not very democratic. If Spain persists in using the international law to judge us we might judge this wrong and use the rule of force to put them right. Let’s bomb Spain next: their Holy Inquisition poses a significant threat to humanity.
- Classical English put-downs, telling in jokes what they believe in fact. A Plague on both your houses !
☼ War crimes?? Are you liberals for real??
You all sit around on a sunny afternoon in May almost a decade after 3000 people died on 9/11 and look to pass judgment on the quick actions of a government looking to protect its people against ruthless terrorists, evil men who bragged about having information of other terrorist plots. Men who wouldnt blink while cutting off your infidel head! I ask, what would you have done? Poured them tea and politely asked them if they had any other catastrophic plans theyd be interested in telling us about?
While were at it why doesnt Garzon dig up Lincoln and Trumans bones and throw them in the doc as well!!
Of course Im against torture. But what is torture? And does context mean anything? There is not a doubt in my mind that I could come up with a scenario that would have you green light a little water boarding.
Every morning Europe should awake and hit its knees thanking God that America exists and has the stones to continue to pursue evil.
☼ «gazon: I am a Spaniard, for us the time of playing Don Quixote passed long ago: Garzón or the Spanish courts should stop this. It is simply not in our national interest and I couldn’t care less for humanitarian principles or human rights if it means we lose even one cent.»
I think that you will find that you are very much in the minority in this respect. The time of Don Quixote passed many many years ago, as did the time of dropping pants and bending over.
☼ «Martynineurope said: I think that you will find that you are very much in the minority in this respect.The time of Don Quixote passed many many years ago, as did the time of dropping pants and bending over.»
the double-crossers who themselves bend over and want others to take the rap. You want justice against the Empire, you do it yourselves. Right now ( http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espana/China/pide/medidas/efectivas/Audiencia/abandone/caso/Tibet/elpepuesp/20090507elpepunac_11/Tes) China threatens Spain with reprisals if they courts don’t drop actions in the case of Tibet human rights.
I couldn’t care less for the rights of the Tibetans, of the Iraquis, of the Palestianians or for your human rights if it comes to that.
That long list of American human crimes and backing for dictators Arkasha posted, Britain did the same at the time and we didn’t see you or anyone doing anything about it.
To name just one, Pinochet. And all the others.
Not long ago Britain was helping the terrorists of ETA, so Spain had to stop sending the British criminals in Costa del Sol: tit for tat.
Garzon and our judges should restrict themselves to solve our problems, let the UN (that you own) do whatever. People, your attacks against Bolton give hypocrisy a bad name.
Garzón, y cierra España.
☼ The UN that I own? That’s news to me.
☼ This article was actually such a blatant troll I have to wonder if it isn’t some sort of neo-COINTELPRO attempt to stir up and thereby identify US «dissidents» for later imprisonment, assassination, or whatever. I suppose it worked.
- Y termino aquí porque estoy hasta los cojones de toda esta manga de cabrones. Si queréis justicia, la haceis vosotros y cargais con las consecuencias. Yo no quiero justicia, porque no creo en la Justicia una puta mierda.